If you’re going on that, the top 5 NE WR/TE combined for 228 catches, 14 less than just our top 4. Where is this huge variation in talent?
He is not an owner. He has slowly taken power away from the GM. He handpicked the Matt LaFleur. It is going to be interesting if he will start influencing the draft… and Free Agency…
I already stated that I don’t think the difference in talent is “huge”, but I do believe it’s a difference maker. It’s not an apples to apples comparison because NE runs a completely different offense. They run the ball more and the RB is a huge part of the passing game. In fact the RB is #1 in receptions and #2 in receiving yards. They also were deeper than G.B. Their #5 and #6 receivers have similar numbers to our #3 and #4 receivers respectively.
Edelman 74 receptions, 850 yards, 6 TD’s
White 87 receptions, 751 yards, 7 TD’s
Gordon 40 receptions, 720 yards, 3 TD’s
Gronkowski 47 receptions, 682 yards, 3 TD’s
Hogan 35 receptions, 532 yards, 3 TD’s
Dorsett 32 receptions, 290 yards, 3 TD’s
Edit: For clarification i’m using “receiver” as any pass catcher regardless of position. I understand that may not fit with typical NFL definitions, but (for the sake of this argument) in my mind the people catching the ball are receivers. I may have chosen my words differently had I known this conversation would take off.
I take the opposite view. I don’t think he is on a power grab (he doesn’t need to, being the CEO) and you can bet he is aware of Harlan’s belief in hiring the right guy, and letting him work.
I think this is nothing more than an honest attempt (by Murphy) to correct what he thought was going wrong with the team. It IS his remit to change things if he sees enough that he doesn’t like. Sometimes a simple explanation is the right one. I’m aware that some like sarahfar and Fox disagree, but that is my view.
No issue, it is a possibility, but he has had a chance to back away and hand it off to Gute, he refused, Gute doesn’t have full GM powers and when given the opportunity at LaFleur’s press conference he again reasserted he has final say on personnel and all football, and LaFleur and Ball report to Murphy. OK I see he views it differently than Harlan.
But he also would not pay LaFleurs choice for STC and that drags on now with guys who have had some failure, after Murphy ended negotiations as Rizzi he felt wanted too much. Now to be fair that could be Ball. Ok after the debacle of 2015 and then some rough time with talent and Zook Murphy doesn’t want to pay?
Finally, we don’t know yet on picks, cuts and fa, but it is fair to question as Fox did will Murphy and I will add Ball continue to exert wider leverage? I think it is fair to have some concern.
By “doesn’t have full GM powers” you simply mean, the GM isn’t solely responsible for hiring and firing the head coach. Instead, those decisions were made together with Murphy, which while technically different is operationally no different than any other team. You really think a GM is going to fire the head coach or hire a new head coach without any buy-in from the owner? That is about the only thing I’m seeing as a difference here?
With Rizzi, he left two weeks ago and still hasn’t been picked up anywhere. How is he sitting without a job this long if he’s such a hot commodity asking for a fair price? Why do we think, “the Packers refused to pay him” is anything more than Rizzi or his agent negotiating publicly? Or maybe the fact no one else has gotten him proves the request WAS crazy.
Even then, I would think the President/owner is in charge of the coaching budget for ALL teams. Not seeing what is unusual here. I can’t imagine any GM/head coach is given a blank check.
Where is any evidence of Murphy exerting leverage on the player personnel side? If there is none, why a concern?
To be fair , now it appears Rizzi wanted the Packers, LaFleur wanted Rizzi but he left GB without an offer. Several days later Murphy Ball or whoever did OK the price, but Rizzi changed his mind, and didn’t want to move his family to GB.
After seeing the Super Bowl and the NFC Championship game, The Rams are a one trick poney that can’t adjust on offense to save their lives. LaFleur is going to bring that Gimmick WCO to Green Bay… They should have went with McDaniels who runs the WCO correctly.
Like I said before, we don’t know anything about LaFleur’s coaching style. We haven’t played a single game yet, and it’s not like he’s a clone of the guys he learned from. He will have his own version of the system even if it’s roots are McVay, Shanahan, etc.
LaFleur was not my first choice, and I didn’t even have a 2nd choice on my preferred list of available coaches. But I think with Rodgers as our QB and basically a 2nd coach on the field (one whom I hope will be kept in check) we will be fine.
The Rams offense was horrible last night. But I don’t think there is anything we can take from it as Packers fans. Our chips have been put on the table and now we need to see the hand we’ve been dealt.
Hopefully he doesn’t have the tendency to be stupid like McVay… like sitting the best running back for no apparent reason… McVay did surround himself with high quality guys. Hopefully LaFleur is smarter than McVay when it comes to breaking tendencies. If it wasn’t for Wade Philips being the man behind the curtain, the Rams would have been blown out. We can make the point that LaFleur had no one to work with when he was the OC of the Titans, but nothing makes me believe that he called the games like a genius. I hope that he is a better play caller than McCarthy and Rodgers can make adjustments at the line in a fast manner. If the offense is any good next year, Hackett will be gone as he will get an offer to be a play caller and Getsy will replace him. But I don’t see that happening. I see that this staff will change because some of the coaches that were settled with will not cut the mustard and higher regard and more competitive ones will be brought in.
I’d really prefer a head coach managing the play caller than the head coach BEING the play caller. Especially after only one year of doing so. But we’ll see. I still find the choice really odd, but hope for the best (as usual).
I agree with you. We saw first hand how difficult it was for McCarthy to manage all facets of the team on game days because he was too busy running the offense. On the plus side, I think Pettine is going to be just fine managing everything on his side of the ball. And with Zook finally being castaway we have nowhere but up to go with Special Teams. If the new guy can get things going in the right direction (I would settle for average after so many years of being in the cellar) then we might be OK having the HC running the offense.
LaFleur is new to play calling. He really didn’t strike fear in the hearts of anyone as OC of the Titans. To be honest, Rodgers has more experience calling plays than him. I am not saying he could be good, but look what BB did to the genius McVay… Goff is a stupid young QB that does exactly what he is told and doesn’t take what is given. Rodgers is way different and if he needs to change the play as what is called at the line, let him do it as it will be advantageous to the team.
I endorsed Russ Ball when the GM position was vacant. Months later, having heard a lot more than I knew then, I am happy the Packers went in another direction for GM.
When whatever happened to Ted Thompson happened, Russ seemed to accrue much greater powers and may not have made the greatest decisions as a consequence (that is arguable, but I have some doubts). Sarahfar has questions about Ball’s role (and now so do I), but as long as he is doing mostly executive stuff, that is around football but only periphally connected, I’m good with that, it’s what he has done really well all his life.
The dollar value attached to players (whether on the team or from outside it) should always (imo) be decided by the GM, as a key part of his overall remit. Russ Ball’s part of THAT job is to get the best deal he can, within the parameters set by the GM. Obviously to do that job you need the two to talk regularly, iron out differences of opinion about a players value, and get agreement, but the final call should belong to the GM.
Makes me post at least 20 characters.
Was listening to BB from 2 years ago at Annapolis. There is a lot of Wolf there. Savant like focus on execution. It helps to not accept less than the best and be willing to replace anyone.
I am the chairman of a 911 board, and we have been so efficient and strong in negotiating with employee unions, we are now struggling to hire and retain good people. I have always been a good negotiator, but sometimes you can be too good. Fits with BB and Wolf, there is a fine line to all of this. Not to get all Sun Tzu or Zen, but there is a balance. Wolf was always willing to pay more for what he wanted and sell lower to move someone on. The key is to get it right. Clearly the last 3 years they have had issues. I think Gute deserves a full shot and he should be a real GM. He will be the likely victim if this continues sideways to down. New coach, some inexperience in coaches, and a aging QB who was hurt is a real challenge not a light deal…,
Sarahfar, just post the thumbs up emoji with twenty dots or so and it will automatically shorten it with allowing you to post.
I just mastered using emojis over the last year, can we say