The incomplete TD pass to Franks
December 26, 2004 03:32AM
There's one play I wondered about and I don't think anyone has commented on it.

I've seen comments about how Franks is finally running deeper routes, etc. Remember that attempted TD pass to Franks in the endzone when the ball sailed by out of reach on the near side of the endzone from Franks. The defender had gotten in his way and at the time, I thought it looked like pass interference. But Franks had given up, it appeared, and I figured the refs just viewed it as an uncatchable ball. But I remember one of the announcers also commenting on the pass interference and remarking that if Franks had made more of an effort to get to the ball, he might have gotten the penalty call on the defender. To me, it sort of looked like Franks gave up on the play.

Did this strike anyone else?

December 26, 2004 06:08AM
I'd have to say that Bubba has some decent talent, but the guy sure doesn't have much "Shockey" in him. Shockey plays like his underwear are on fire, and Bubba plays like he isn't wearing any! :eek
RE: Yup!
December 27, 2004 10:57PM
>I'd have to say that Bubba has some decent talent, but the
>guy sure doesn't have much "Shockey" in him.

The NY media are sick of Shockey's antics, and his drops.
what's new?
December 26, 2004 03:32PM
Has Franks ever worked back to the ball or gone up over a guy to make a play his whole career? For a guy his size that's just crap. He's sand-bagged the offense from Day 1 with his half-assed play in the passing game.

"But he's such an asset in the running game, blah, blah, blah." Bull.

He gets trashed and whiffs as often as any other starting TE. IMO he's far and away the most dispensible player on offense and, given the state of our D, I'll yak if they even offer him a contract. Somehow we'll find a way to make up his 10 yards/game.
RE: what's new?
December 26, 2004 04:49PM
Your entitled to your opinion, but I disagree whole heartedly. Franks might not be Tony Gonzales, but he's a good TE and still the best on our roster.

Could we do better? Probably, but is he hurting us? No.
As far as you saying he's not all that in the run game you are way off. He might whiff ocassionally, but find a TE who doesn't when blocking DE's or blitzing LB's.

Better yet, show some plays where this is true about Franks! I guarantee he's a better blocker than Gonzales, Gates, Crumpler, Heap or any other pass catching TE I can think of.

“I feel like I’ve done this long enough (that) I don’t rank them,” McCarthy replied when asked where the win ranked in his five-year tenure. “We’re going to have bigger wins than this in my time in Green Bay. You can trust me on that." --After beating the Jets who had the best record in the NFL. The Packers went on to win the Superbowl.
December 26, 2004 06:31PM
It's not good to disagree with the doctor!:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :3 :lol :lol :lol :lol
RE: what's new?
December 27, 2004 11:35AM
Well, if all TE's whiff, including Franks, then why is he "all that" in the running game as you claim? Claiming he's the best on our roster doesn't mean he's any good relative to other TE's across the league. That, of course, is the relevant comparison.

Those guys you mention aren't as good at blocking because they're too busy making an impact in the passing game, something Franks hasn't done his whole career. There is no comparison between those guys and Franks when it comes to putting pressure on a defense.

Here's McGinns take on Franks for the past 5 games:

vs MN: Franks blocking was below average

vs JAC: Bubba Franks blew a block on the bootleg when Brett Favre damaged his left thumb, took forever to get moving on a flat pass and was only marginally better than Ben Steele as a run blocker.

vs DET: Neither TE blocked very well

vs PHI: no comment

vs STL: The blocking was fine except for a first-quarter run by Najeh Davenport that went nowhere after Franks inexplicably fell down.

I know, I know, McGinn, who watches more tape than 98% of the people on this board, and has done so for a living for 20 years doesn't know anything.

Fact is that Franks is probably the least dangerous pass catching TE's in football and has been near the top of that list his entire career. That's not even debateable. His billing as a superior run blocker likely stems from peoples need to compliment someone that they view favorably. Kind of like when people answer "She's got a good personality" when asked if a not-too-cute girl is good looking.
What pass catching TE is a better run blocker?
December 27, 2004 06:12PM
That is what JC is asking you. Comparing Franks to perfection is not a valid argument. Comparing him to other alternatives, is. I don't necessarily disagree with your whole argument but you aren't selling it.
who cares?
December 30, 2004 07:21PM
Who's a less effective pass catcher? That's what I'm asking. Franks finished dead last in YPC last year. That's pathetic. We're talking about Franks' overall value relative to other TE's across the league, not within-team alternatives. Does it even need to be said that he's currently a better option than 2 guys that have never played?

And how does my argument compare Franks to perfection? It dod nothing of the sort. Seriously please show me how I've done that. That's nothing more than putting words in my mouth, again, just to establish a basis for disagreement. Weak.

RE: who cares?
December 30, 2004 08:52PM
"It dod nothing of the sort."

Are you sure it dodn't?


AS for the don't get YAC when you catch the ball in the end zone!
That's not what you were asking
December 31, 2004 08:10AM
in the retort I replied to. You were criticizing Franks blocking and JC asked you to name a better pass catching blocker. You did not do that. The fact that I used the word perfection to describe your comparison is not putting words in your mouth.
Least dangerous pass catching TE in football???
December 27, 2004 08:53PM
And I suppose Ben Steele racks up crazy YAC numbers when he actually does manage to catch the ball...

I would agree that Franks is not in the same league as Jeremy Shockey, Todd Heap, Antonio Gates, and Tony Gonzalez when it comes to the passing game. He's still good, however. Saying he's the least dangerous is ridiculous. In fact, I can't think of another TE I'd want near the goalline. And, he probably is the best run blocking TE in the NFL that I can think of. That's been a pretty big part of our offense of late, especially last season.

I agree, the Packers should be much more concerned about shoring up defensive woes before signing Franks longterm, but I do think he'd be more missed than you suggest if he does go to another team.
RE: Least dangerous pass catching TE in football???
December 28, 2004 02:42PM
I think part of the problem is that we hardly ever go to our TE's until we hit the red zone. Seriously, I can hardly remember any passes to Franks over the middle between the 20's this year, it's always to the WR's or RB's. I would like to see them target him more over the middle just to see what he could do with it after he catches it. I mean, Bubba is by no means a small dude, I'd love to see him build a head of steam and take on some safeties. I think we have to resign him, Ben "hands of" Steele isn't getting it done out there. . .

December 30, 2004 06:49PM
Never said anything about Steele vs Franks.

You can say it's rediculous to call Franks the least dangerous but his ypc over his career is totally consistent with that characterization. By what measure are you conluding that he's far from the least dangerous? I'd really like an answer to that because in the years of debate on this topic nobody has been able to offer anything but unsubstantiated opinion.

His great run blocking is a myth IMO. He's slightly above average in and since there aren't any convenient stats for that we'll just have to disagree.

His goalline prowess is also overrated. Find a TD catch he's made that any other competent TE couldn't have made if put in that same situation. Slipping past a LB that's playing run first hardly constitutes a great play. With the other weappons we have on O, a TE who's greatest asset is catching a bunch of TD catches from inside the 5 is very dispensible. Are you saying we'd have trouble scoring in those situation with Green, Davenport, Walker, Driver, Fisher. Come on.
Franks' reaction
December 27, 2004 06:54PM
leds me to believe it was a read route, meaning his route is altered according to how the defender plays him.

I believe he expected the pass to be high over his head and I think Brett read it to be an inside move by Bubba. The WCOstyle ofense has many such routes made infamous by Billie Schroeder who would never read the same route as Favre
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